tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2591229843590982581.post8252301795528767135..comments2024-03-28T11:28:58.010-07:00Comments on JJ's Wargames: Aesthetics in Wargames - Another Aunt Sally? carojonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11826580638291659193noreply@blogger.comBlogger18125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2591229843590982581.post-63414263320396454392016-06-27T06:11:39.871-07:002016-06-27T06:11:39.871-07:00I think the club scene here in the UK is a key dif...I think the club scene here in the UK is a key difference to playing in the US. The clubs help to bring new players into the hobby, and my own club has worked really hard at welcoming new visitors and getting them involved in a game on their first visit.<br /><br />We have found that once new members have got to know the club and make the decision to join they soon experience the encouragement to get involved in painting, collecting and putting on games of their own design. There is no pressure, as I outlined in my post, with a simple club rule of only putting painted figures on the table. <br /><br />I have since writing the post had the opportunity to discuss Arthur's article with him on TMP and it is clear painting is not an aspect he enjoys or cares very much about, and we agreed to disagree. I was keen that the point needed to be made that the hobby is better represented to the wider public, some of whom might be interested in getting involved, by having the best of painted collections and terrain on view, more likely to attract them in. I think this is especially true of younger players who have grown up with sophisticated graphics in computer games and I think expect a good level of eye candy in the tabletop scene. With the amount of great figure/terrain ranges available and paint suppliers it has never been so easy for them to practice developing their modelling skills and producing great looking games of their own, supported by more experienced wargamers in their local club.carojonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11826580638291659193noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2591229843590982581.post-81880829116706591252016-06-26T18:17:41.796-07:002016-06-26T18:17:41.796-07:00Lovely article but I can't help but wonder if ...Lovely article but I can't help but wonder if it maybe isn't just the visual impact that might be a cause but perhaps the group of guys playing a game? I've come across some games where the players were about as friendly as hyenas around a zebra carcass. If you were a young guy walking up to a group of older guys, some scanning through a rule book and others rolling dice and measuring, it may look beautiful, but you wouldn't necessarily understand how it is played. A demo game is a good introduction but that tends to be more of a Games Workshop experience or something at a convention, not something historical players tend to do as much - especially if they play at home.<br /><br />New generations committing time to not only find figures, learn how to paint and model and also having to read and memorize a rule book? A video game and choice of gaming console is an easier system to learn and begin playing. Better yet, they might just play online and have no real investment of time or money. I think the magazine has a point, but the reason isn't on the right target.Vive l'Empereurhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00785173543457314763noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2591229843590982581.post-73123457661297577432016-06-06T08:32:35.034-07:002016-06-06T08:32:35.034-07:00Spot on Andy, and thank you.
I shall watch the com...Spot on Andy, and thank you.<br />I shall watch the comments on TMP with interest.<br />Cheers<br />JJcarojonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11826580638291659193noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2591229843590982581.post-6132144980788093142016-06-06T02:56:46.497-07:002016-06-06T02:56:46.497-07:00Just found this via TMP -Interesting as my Blog Gl...Just found this via TMP -Interesting as my Blog Glorious little Soldiers was the other link specified. I find mysrelf in agreement. As you say its up to each wargamer to decide on how deeply he wants to involve himself. Like you I'm dammed sure I'll not be railroaded by any fashion at all- not in wargaming anyway ! .<br /> My real point though I suppose is the idea that we should be deliberately bad just to please said fashion(or anti-fashion perhaps) the idea is of course twaddle . Each bloke will do the best job he can to suit himelf. I just don't get this pressure nonsense.<br /> Nice blog BTWW JJ.<br /> Andy OGUK <br />Big Andyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17235478427317774609noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2591229843590982581.post-12770526462282850132016-05-26T10:47:21.525-07:002016-05-26T10:47:21.525-07:00Hi Tim, thank you.
Ah yes new nicely painted troo...Hi Tim, thank you. <br />Ah yes new nicely painted troops getting a good seeing too in their first outing is obviously a truism the world over.<br />Have a great time at Little Wars.<br />JJcarojonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11826580638291659193noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2591229843590982581.post-60162114908440550642016-05-26T04:24:34.464-07:002016-05-26T04:24:34.464-07:00JJ and all others who have taken the time to reply...JJ and all others who have taken the time to reply, well done to you all and "hear, hear!"<br /><br />This weekend my gaming buddy and I will participate in Little Wars in Melbourne. We hope that the efforts we put into the aesthetics of our endeavour will be enjoyed as much by on lookers as it will by us.<br /><br />And ... We fully expect that the 'performance' of our troops will be inversely proportional to how well and more importantly how recently that how've been painted. <br /><br />Thanks for your blog JJ and to the supportive and constructive community around your web presence.<br /><br />Timcomdotskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17680170477303666784noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2591229843590982581.post-4892858114377286042016-05-23T09:23:02.433-07:002016-05-23T09:23:02.433-07:00Hi Tony, thank you. I love a great contentious pie...Hi Tony, thank you. I love a great contentious piece of writing to fire up the little grey cells and this month's Miniature Wargames ticked the box and I just had to come and share it with you guys to see if my reaction was contrary to what others were thinking.<br /><br />Yes you echo what others have said and what I was keen to stress. Our hobby is blessed with a lot of really nice and generous people happy to share and help others develop in the hobby and I don't detect any pressure on anyone to do it in any particular way or to a set standard, which is why I was quite taken back that the suggestion was the complete opposite.<br /><br />As I was implying in my post, the pressure that some folks might feel would seem to be coming from themselves rather than from any external group and if you are confident in your opinions and have ideas of your own then ignore external opinions and go with the most important one, namely your own.<br /><br />Cheers<br />JJcarojonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11826580638291659193noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2591229843590982581.post-86615631342484808772016-05-23T04:59:25.557-07:002016-05-23T04:59:25.557-07:00Great post.
When I joined New Buckenham I had no w...Great post.<br />When I joined New Buckenham I had no wargaming experience or models, just an interest. First night made to feel really welcome and straight into a game with another member's figures. There is no pressure to have your own army, just turn up and play whatever is on if you want, although it's kind of expected that something will grab your imagination at some point and the madness will take over.<br />As for painting standards etc we have all sorts from semi pro painters and terrain makers to complete novices. There are at least two painting nights a year where knowledge, tips etc are passed around and the occasional club terrain making days.<br />Personally the aesthetics are important to me and I will strive to make my figures look as good as possible whilst remembering that I intend to play wargames with them, not display them in a museum under a high powered magnifier. <br /><br />Tony.Tony Mileshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03046365128769273868noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2591229843590982581.post-53501331534898863432016-05-23T01:55:43.782-07:002016-05-23T01:55:43.782-07:00Hi John, thank you.
I don't have a problem wit...Hi John, thank you.<br />I don't have a problem with a podcast host admitting they struggle with painting. We have all been there to a greater or lesser extent. <br /><br />I do however struggle to grasp the concept that says great painting and aesthetically pleasing games serve to put newcomers to the hobby off because they will feel unable to meet the standards that these types of games impose on them. <br /><br />My contention is that most wargamers I meet and know are not "wall flowers" and are quite capable of deciding what standards to impose on themselves, are quite capable of celebrating great looking games that help attract people into the hobby and are the kind of people who will help and support those new to the hobby develop their skills to whatever level they choose to do.<br /><br />Likewise we don't need to or should feel compelled to return to the plain games of the black and white era unless that is the way you like to game. "Unfashionably Shiny" with retro figures from yesteryear are great to see and take me back to simpler world, but I don't want to go back to that as the image of the hobby, and I think such an image would put more people off than attract in.<br /><br />As mentioned in another reply, I can't imagine this kind of debate in the world of fantasy where that side of the hobby has excelled in the articles produced encouraging great painting and modelling skills, that perhaps we historical gamers are just starting to catch up to.<br /><br />JJcarojonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11826580638291659193noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2591229843590982581.post-6284535068082649152016-05-23T00:47:21.658-07:002016-05-23T00:47:21.658-07:00Hi Vince, I think you are being too modest, I know...Hi Vince, I think you are being too modest, I know you can turn out a smart figure or two. <br /><br />Like you I have found a generosity of spirit among the majority of fellow gamers and I have lost count of the number of tips and great ideas I have picked up over the years chatting to guys in the club, at shows or seeing some great blog posts. One of the greatest delights is finding a gem of an idea and then sitting down to try it out yourself, and an even bigger thrill when it works.<br /><br />Oh yes, nicely painted figures are no indication as to how well they will fight. I guess the big effect of wielding a great looking force and seeing it get beat is that it really hurts when you see them going down in combat and you get to experience some of the pain your historical counterpart may have felt!<br /><br />JJcarojonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11826580638291659193noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2591229843590982581.post-30689855215148574702016-05-23T00:39:15.396-07:002016-05-23T00:39:15.396-07:00Hi Adam, thank you that's very kind and I am t...Hi Adam, thank you that's very kind and I am thrilled you are loving the hobby.<br /><br />As you can see I too was motivated by the work of others and I have had a lot of pleasure out of the hobby and I feel beholden to try and put something back by encouraging others to get involved and find the fun in playing with toy soldiers.<br />Keep on painting<br />JJcarojonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11826580638291659193noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2591229843590982581.post-7698778677172604982016-05-23T00:34:17.596-07:002016-05-23T00:34:17.596-07:00Hi Carlo,
Thank you. I think the younger generatio...Hi Carlo,<br />Thank you. I think the younger generations buy into aesthetics in their games unconsciously, being used to the computer games, they are familiar with having great visual graphics and animation and expecting a similar level of attention to detail in their tabletop experience.<br /><br />Both my lads have got into the hobby and can relax with a paintbrush in hand and delight in celebrating great examples of painting and modelling created by others and have that spirit of enquiry, seeking to work out how they have got the results they have.<br /><br />I think it would be hard to imagine an article like this appearing in the fantasy magazines where modelling and painting is taken for granted as all part of the hobby and with many younger players graduating from a fantasy background, my hope is that that view will keep historical gaming moving in that direction.<br /><br />JJcarojonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11826580638291659193noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2591229843590982581.post-23591908666688626802016-05-23T00:24:21.813-07:002016-05-23T00:24:21.813-07:00Hi Jm,
My thoughts exactly and I think you make a ...Hi Jm,<br />My thoughts exactly and I think you make a good point about your painting following illness. I realise some of us would love to paint but can't due to physical limitations and to enjoy their hobby are forced through circumstances to play with painted miniatures through other means than painting them themselves. <br /><br />It was great to hear you found that painting was therapeutic and I would echo that sentiment in that I find the whole process a great way to chill out and express my creativity.<br /><br />The last thing I would want to see is others being put off having that experience because others set the standard as to what their painting has to be like, but conversely let's celebrate excellence in the art and encourage all those that want to, to get better and help show the hobby to the outside world at its best.<br />Cheers<br />JJcarojonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11826580638291659193noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2591229843590982581.post-40379317633699600252016-05-22T16:52:04.977-07:002016-05-22T16:52:04.977-07:00Thanks for the thoughtful post Jonathan. The aesth...Thanks for the thoughtful post Jonathan. The aesthetics is important to me, and by & large I find painting a pleasure rather than a chore.<br />You raise an interesting point about podcasts - I will still listen to them, but I do wish they would see their way clear to have another shot at painting miniatures - I'm not referring to M & M, as Mr Schuck has been getting stuck in with the brushes of late :-) Jacksarge Paintinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09859137774361915594noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2591229843590982581.post-2237811301072520992016-05-22T08:37:05.859-07:002016-05-22T08:37:05.859-07:00We all play wargames for a variety of reasons and ...We all play wargames for a variety of reasons and I confess I like to see a well painted army grace the table. I would say I paint to a reasonable standard, but I see plenty of figures that make me think different ! I have always found wargamers a generous lot. Painters are usually willing to share their techniques and I have yet to have anyone refuse when asked "how did you get that effect ?"<br /><br />I have suffered from a different painting problem, as I well remember playing a WAB game and seeing my freshly (and I thought nicely painted) Alexandrian Companions, soundly beaten by a bunch of savages, led by a naked guy who looked like he had been painted with a roller. Nice or not, my Companions were soon back in the box. (surely a +1 for the paint job Mr Umpire ?)<br /><br />VinceVincehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03691369848035290908noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2591229843590982581.post-44415263035217280382016-05-22T07:32:00.912-07:002016-05-22T07:32:00.912-07:00Agreed, excellent post. Its the love of the hobby ...Agreed, excellent post. Its the love of the hobby for me. Time, effort, cost are irrelevant. I strive to have good looking figures and terrain because it makes me happy. That's all that matters to me. Your blog tutorials helped significantly improve my painting skill the more I practiced. This only increased my happiness in this hobby. I have figures I first painted and still use them but it serves as a reminder to me when I compare the first generation figures to my present generation figures how far my skill has progressed and that is immensely satisfying. Your set up and figures remain my benchmarks to reach but I am greatful for having this high bar to reach. It keeps me motivated.<br /><br />AdamA.P.https://www.blogger.com/profile/04557979425409883713noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2591229843590982581.post-89997517537094765872016-05-22T03:59:55.826-07:002016-05-22T03:59:55.826-07:00Well said JJ- preparing my own retort to MW June a...Well said JJ- preparing my own retort to MW June as well on the "Pyjamas" blogs. Unfortunately one seems to feel that setting the bar low is what the current young individuals want. Well the young folk I know want to aspire as well, often to the highest reaches possible. Carlohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17002425294986020268noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2591229843590982581.post-33947869636290784032016-05-22T03:57:05.221-07:002016-05-22T03:57:05.221-07:00Excellent post. I find the wargaming hobby to be ...Excellent post. I find the wargaming hobby to be a good mix of artistic expression (painting, terrain making) and social interaction (gaming) and each of us can choose which aspect of the hobby to emphasize based on our particular interests and skills. I find the artistic aspects to be huge stress relievers and do them for that reason not to achieve a goal set by outside parties. I actually got into the hobby after a pair of strokes and found painting to be great therapy for fine motor skills. My first handful of figures may not meet the highest painting standards but they mean a great deal to me.<br />jmilesrhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17961624317410579611noreply@blogger.com